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Jamal Khashoggi: A self-exiled journalist talks to the Economist about his country’s recent direction

July 29, 2018
Jamal Khashoggi: A self-exiled journalist talks to the Economist about his country’s recent direction

A year ago my friend Jamal Khashoggi (pictured above), a prominent journalist and past newspaper editor, left his home in his beloved Saudi Arabia for the last time. He is now in self-exile, living in Washington, DC, fearing that he will be arrested for his political views if he returns to his country.

Unlike other figures the Saudi authorities have targeted, such as the writer Raif Badawi, who was sentenced to 1,000 lashes for allegedly “insulting Islam”, Jamal Khashoggi is hardly a dissident. Before he left, he was generally seen as close with the royal court, and even today describes the idea of regime change as “ridiculous”. Mr Khashoggi’s troubles began after he gave a speech  to an American think-tank shortly after Donald Trump’s shocking presidential victory. He argued that Saudi Arabia should be “rightfully nervous about a Trump presidency” at a time when the kingdom was cosying up to the president-elect. Shortly thereafter, he was informed by Saudi officials that he could no longer write or tweet. After hearing stories of friends and colleagues prevented from leaving the country and even imprisoned, he decided to leave.

Muhammad bin Salman, the crown prince, has an ambitious agenda to reform his country’s oil-dependent economy. He has turned Western heads by loosening his kingdom’s stiff social restrictions, most notably by lifting the ban on female driving. At the same time, he has ramped up his suppression of political freedoms and the ability to voice dissent. The kingdom has detained the owners of Saudi media outlets and extracted concessions in exchange for their freedom. Many of the prominent female activists, such as Lujain al-Hathloul, who lobbied for the right to drive, now find themselves in jail. Saudi journalists who have contacts with foreign embassies risk being labelled as treasonous. The country already scores among the worst in the world on its free-press protections. Despite the crown prince’s youth and courting of the West, that seems unlikely to change.

Mr Khashoggi sat down with The Economist to give his thoughts on the state of free expression in Saudi Arabia and across the Middle East. The transcript, presented below, has been lightly edited for clarity.

***

The Economist: Tell me the story of why you left Saudi Arabia

Jamal Khashoggi: It was around this time last year. It was Ramadan, and usually we Saudis—and as someone from Medina—I would have loved to spend this time in Saudi Arabia, in Medina during Ramadan. But I did not feel comfortable. I was nervous.

I was banned from writing. I was banned from tweeting at that time.

The Economist: Why were you banned from writing and tweeting?

Mr Khashoggi: They did not give me a reason when they ordered me to go silent. But it all started after I spoke at the Washington Institute [for Near East Policy], and I said Saudi Arabia should not be comfortable with the election of Donald Trump. If they did not like [Barack] Obama for not supporting the Saudi stance in Syria, they should expect the same from Trump because of Trump’s relationship with Russia. The Washington Institute quoted me as saying that. And I learned later from a close acquaintance at the royal court that they were afraid that me speaking might hurt talks then underway with the Trump team. It was really ridiculous because I was just a journalist.

[…] Then the Qatari crisis broke out, and the Saudi media went into a frenzy. The Saudis who were silent were accused of being traitors. That made me feel like I better leave just to be safe. So I packed my stuff and I left for America. When I left, I had no plan to speak out. I just wanted to be safe. I was afraid of getting banned from traveling, because I was hearing of people getting banned. So I thought: “Get out while you can, before it is too late.”

After I arrived in Washington, things began to happen in Saudi Arabia. Arrests…

The Economist: These were the big arrests?

Mr Khashoggi: The big arrests [of prominent princes and businessmen like al-Waleed bin Talal who were detained in the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Riyadh]. And many of my friends were arrested.

The Economist: Your journalist friends?

Mr Khashoggi: Journalist friends, activists, social-media personalities, ordinary friends who I knew, acquaintances. What is annoying is that there was no reason. And I think when you get arrested for doing nothing, it is more painful that way. Now eight months after the arrests of those guys last September, they haven’t been charged with anything! Many of them spent months in solitary confinement.

A brother of one of them called me and said you will not believe what I have been through. This brother visited him and found him so broken. We are talking about economists, intellectuals, writers. We are not talking about criminals who are used to a tough life. People like you and me. If you ended up in jail, it could break you—especially in your own country.

The Economist: So now you’re in self-exile?

Mr Khashoggi: I’m in self-exile. I don’t see myself as opposition. I just want to be an independent writer, and that is what I’m doing with the Washington Post [where Mr Khashoggi is a contributor]. I’m just writing my views assuming that I am Saudi Arabian.

I am writing a forthcoming piece in which I suggest why Muhammad bin Salman [the crown prince of Saudi Arabia] needs a free press. In it, I propose the Kuwaiti publication law as a model. In Kuwait, even though it is a monarchy, the Kuwaiti media has more room to debate and check and balance the government. But they do not criticize the emir.

The Economist: That you think is a reasonable compromise?

Mr Khashoggi: I think it’s reasonable. I’m not an extremist. And I disagree with Saudis who are calling for regime change and stuff like that. It’s just ridiculous. We don’t need that in Saudi Arabia. I believe in the system—I just want a reformed system. Actually, I want the system to give me a voice to allow me to speak.

The Economist: And so in your view, monarchy can encompass free expression?

Mr Khashoggi: Yes, yes of course. Kuwait has that, why can’t we? Jordan has that, why can’t we? Morocco has that, why can’t we?

The Economist: So what are your plans in terms of returning to Saudi Arabia?

Mr Khashoggi: I will not return because I don’t want to risk losing my freedom. I really don’t like being in jail. I don’t want to struggle and be the shining example. I just want to be a free writer. I think I am serving my country and my people by providing an independent narrative.

I often get attacked in Saudi Arabia, but the critics don’t ridicule my ideas. There were about 30 or 40 articles attacking me in the Saudi press. Not a single one debated something I wrote. They just ridiculed me as a person. They see me as a traitor who is writing in the foreign press. But discuss what I am writing? They will not.

The Economist: Looking at the rest of the Arab World in terms of the ability for journalist to write or to express an independent voice, it seems like there has been a backslide there. The country I’m thinking of is Egypt after President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi came to power in 2014.

Mr Khashoggi: Egypt is a mess. There is totally no freedom, but they are making a mockery of journalism in Egypt. In Egypt a journalist lies. Or the government tells people to lie and engage in conspiracies. If you were working a news agency, you cannot trust anything you read in Egyptian newspapers, you cannot trust any number.

And this is very sad because Egypt is the mother of Arab journalism. But in the Arab world, the countries where you can find decent journalism is entirely related to the extent of freedom there: Tunisia, Morocco, Kuwait, and Lebanon except for the intimidation of Hizbullah. In Lebanon there is some freedom, but of course Hizbullah is intimidating journalists who dare to go after them.

The Economist: And what it’s like in the UAE or other Gulf states?

Mr Khashoggi: It’s very controlled. In Saudi Arabia, in the UAE. Sometimes the government plays a very interesting game, in which you are allowed to criticise or to debate an issue in another country but not your own. Again, this is ridiculous.

The Economist: And so you obliquely talk about an issue in your country by mentioning a parallel in another?

Mr Khashoggi: Yes. I can imagine a Qatari newspaper talking about the badly managed economic policy in Egypt. But they will not talk about the wasteful cost of building in Qatar, which I find hypocritical but we do it in the Arab world. I did it, when I was an editor in a newspaper. It is like that old joke about Brezhnev and Eisenhower. Eisenhower tells Brezhnev, “In America, anyone can criticise me openly.” And Brezhnev says “Yes, we have the same thing in Russia. Anyone can criticise the American president openly.”

The Economist: What are the ultimate consequences of Saudi Arabia not allowing voices that are critical of the country? What does that portend?

Mr Khashoggi: Particularly at this time, it is not right. Why? The crown prince is engaging in a major economic transformation. And since there is no one to debate it, to discuss it, he will not see the faults of those transformations. For example, he orchestrated the spending of tens of billions of dollars in building an entertainment city south of Riyadh. There was not a single article debating the feasibility of this project. When you build a metro line in Washington, DC, you debate whether it is a smart decision or not.

The Economist: Who exactly told you to stop tweeting and stop writing?

Mr Khashoggi: It was an assistant to the crown prince. I got the phone call from the royal court. I couldn’t debate it, there was no court order. This is the system.

https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/07/26/how-free-expression-is-suppressed-in-saudi-arabia? 27 Jul 18

Here is Robert Lacey’s recent article with Jamal Khashoggi in the Washington Post

map of saudi arabia

The crown prince doesn’t listen to Saudis – why would he listen to Theresa May?

Robert Lacey in Saudi Arabia

Robert Lacey + heavy metal kids

Robert Lacey meets heavy metal kids in Saudi Arabia

Robert Lacey in Saudi Arabia

2010: Robert interviews Saudi intellectuals in Jeddah

Jamal KhashoggiSaudi Arabia
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Robert Lacey

Robert Lacey

British historian and writer

Robert Lacey is a British historian noted for his original research, which gets him close to – and often living alongside – his subjects. He is the author of numerous international bestsellers. lege felicter - may you read happily

Lege feliciter - may you read happily

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As the Platinum Jubilee begins with news of Camill As the Platinum Jubilee begins with news of Camilla’s elevated status, the Queen, Charles and William are making the big decisions as a trio. 

Robert Lacey writes in @thetimes. Article also on Robert’s website: Robertlacey.com

#robertlacey #platinumjubilee #royalfamily #thequeen
Robert lacey writes for the BBC as The Queen celeb Robert lacey writes for the BBC as The Queen celebrates her #platinumjubilee 

Full article on the BBC website: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60201088
As we approach the 70th anniversary of The Queen’s accession on February 6th, Robert Lacey selects his top pick of books about the Royal Family and The Queen. 

shepherd.com/best-books/about-the-queen

#royalfamily #PlatinumJubilee
Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of a Family in Tumult

First published in hardback: 15 October 2020

What drove Prince William and Prince Harry from the closest of brothers into very different, now distanced men? How has the painful, public unravelling of Prince Charles and Diana’s marriage reverberated through generations? What parts have Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle played in helping their husbands to choose divergent paths? And how does the Queen feel, marshalling her feuding heirs and looking ahead to the future of the British monarchy?

Moving and unvarnished, this is the most intimate insight yet of division in the royal family.

#battleofbrothers #royalfamily #harryandmeghan #williamandkate #britishmonarchy #robertlacey #christmasreads
Little Man - Meyer Lansky and the gangster life by Little Man - Meyer Lansky and the gangster life by Robert Lacey in 1991

Little Man is a book about organised crime unlike any other yet written. If, in the mythology of organised crime, Al Capone symbolised the crude menace of the machine gun and the baseball bat, Meyer Lansky stood for the brains, the sophistication, the hot money, the sheer cleverness of it all. This brilliant biography and social history separates the strands of fact and legend in Meyer Lansky’s – the Godfather of Godfathers – career, revealing a truth about the gangster life in America that is far more fascinating and dramatic than fiction.

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Extracts from Robert Lacey's book "Battle of Broth Extracts from Robert Lacey's book "Battle of Brothers: William, Harry and the Inside Story of a Family in Tumult" are being featured in The Times this week. 

In Today's article Robert Lacey said allegations against the Duchess of Sussex led to a bitter row between brothers who were once inseparable.

You can read the full article from the link in the bio.

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Speaking earlier, Robert Lacey said: “Prince Ph Speaking earlier, Robert Lacey said:

“Prince Philip has been such an integral part of our life. Playing such a key role in the life of the nation.

It was no accident that we decided to feature Prince Philip very strongly in the Crown episode about the moon landing – capturing his interests in science and how he came to understand that science can only take you so far. He went on to develop a strong personal religious faith.

He also helped in bringing the monarchy into touch with everyday life in a fresh way. So many of The Queen’s fresh ideas and fresh initiatives came from this remarkable man.

Prince Philip will be remembered for his sardonic smile, hands behind the back, often unfailingly 2 steps behind Her Majesty. Always there in the most supporting sense.”

Photograph from 1972 in Robert Lacey's book Majesty. “Queen Elizabeth was always front, but Prince Philip was always center.”
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